What I never get is how people who don’t want to be around guns are generally perfectly fine being around people on a payroll to carry guns (not just cops, i mean bodyguards, armored trucks, etc). It takes shockingly little to get that qualification. It’s everything you listed where I live, without any technicalities or weird hoops, much easier than a carry permit, you don’t even need to have a formal personal protection or cash transport business. I know a bunch of people who got guard cards for the hell of it. The fact is the people who jump through all the hoops to get a permit are never the issue.
For one, I’m not sure what that has to do with this conversation. Generally speaking, the sort of person who carries a gun for work isn’t the same sort of person who thinks they need a gun to buy milk.
Second, bold of you to assume that people who don’t want to be around guns are entirely okay with them in the situations you mentioned. Most of them would rather not be around armed police, they would just prefer a police officer to a rando, because again, the cop didn’t get up and think “I better make sure I’m ready to kill people in case it comes up at the grocery store”.
Saw another post and thought of your response here… I think the difference is those of us who know what it takes absolutely feel more comfortable around people who have something to lose, because they do not conflate their position with expertise granting blanket immunity from consequences for their mistakes.
You seem to keep coming back to some belief that I hold cops in some esteem. I don’t.
For all the warts of the profession, they’re still a known quantity. You know why the cop has the gun. You know they completed their minimum of one semester of training and bare minimum psychological evaluation. You know they have a high school diploma.
Anyone else, you know that they could … Afford a gun. If it’s concealed, you know that they took an eight hour course in safety. You know rather little about their stability or anything else. You don’t know why they brought the gun.
In both cases, you also know that they likely exceed those minimums by a fair margin.
As mentioned, cpl holders tend to be enthusiastic and proficient, law abiding citizens. Where I live cops tends to have four year degrees on top of a full year of dedicated police training and supplementary medical training and continuing education requirements.
Again, don’t particularly want to have either around me, but one has less question marks.
Also, linking to idiots with guns isn’t a great way to testify to the responsibility of gun owners.
“I better make sure I’m ready to kill people in case it comes up at the grocery store”.
Funnily enough that is exactly what the cop said. If he gets a call to a grocery store about some violent dickhead, he may be right, too.
Not to mention the cops have a reputation of shooting unarmed black people, are actually statistically worse shots than CCW holders, and statistically commit less crimes than CCW holders.
So the difference there is that someone called the cops to the grocery store, as opposed to a rando taking their gun to buy milk.
Do you really not see the difference between a job where people pay you to carry a gun, and some random person deciding that they want to carry a gun just in case?
One has the job of “person we decided responds to violent situations, while they’re are work doing what we asked them to do”, and the other is "I have no idea who this person is, they’re wearing a dirty T-shirt, holding a cartoon of milk and wearing a pistol at the checkout line of this 7-11”.
With a cop, you have a known quantity and you know why they have the gun. With rando, you just know they have a gun, with no clue why.
Finally, you’re totally correct. That’s why a lot of people don’t exactly like being around armed police either.
Is it so hard to imagine that some people are made to feel less safe being around people with guns, and would like to avoid it where possible?
Well typically murderers don’t order victims by phone, no, unless we’re counting delivery drivers maybe, but that just means civilians “need to have it when they need it” more than the people who get advanced notice.
Do you really think victims of violent crime don’t need or deserve to protect themselves, simply because their job isn’t responding to others being victimized? Why do you think cops, which have less training hours than cosmetologists, are superheros somehow better than other civilians?
Btw I’ll give you a tip, usually the guy with a gun you have to worry about isn’t “some dirty prole open carrying,” it’s someone concealing it illegally and you’ll never know until it becomes a problem. Most legal carriers also carry concealed, so that dirty prole behind you in line “without a gun?” You can never be sure, he may in fact have one just under a thin layer of cotton/polyester blend.
Is it so hard to imagine that some people are made to feel less safe being around people with guns, and would like to avoid it where possible?
Tbh, yes. If you live in America and don’t just “work, home, sleep” (if you go anywhere in public, a mall, the movies, church,anywhere) you likely pass a person with a gun at least one time a day and never even know. Being scared of everyone with a gun is honestly more irrational than just being scared of everyone because they could have a gun. I for one choose not to live my life in fear, if I see a person open carrying I just say “ayy cool is that the p365? How do you like that thing? I had to replace my p320 and got a p10c instead but I’ve been thinking about picking one of those up” and now I have a new, albeit “dirty shirted,” friend.
You’ve started interjecting a lot of defensive talk about being a “prole”, and thinking that people who don’t feel safer in the presence of guns must live their lives in constant fear, or want to take guns away from people.
Re read what I said. I never said people shouldn’t be able to own guns, or carry them. I said people should be able to say “you need my permission to bring a gun into my home or business”.
I’ll be honest with you, I feel like I probably live my life in less fear than the person who needs to carry a gun everywhere to feel safe.
I just think it’s cute you imply people with dirty shirts are dangerous or not to be trusted and I’m making fun of that, if you didn’t catch it.
I agree with people’s right to choose on their own property, however I also find it laughable you’re scared of dirty people with guns but not people in blue shirts with guns nor dirty people with “maybe guns” you’re unaware of. These positions are not conflicting in any way, and you’re silly.
If by that you mean “you’re just making fun of a dumb thing I said.”
Yeah, basically.
Also I think it’s silly to be scared of people for a dumb reason but not be scared of others who could possibly have that same reason hidden under their shirt, but yes, you’re entitled to be naive if you so choose.
What I never get is how people who don’t want to be around guns are generally perfectly fine being around people on a payroll to carry guns (not just cops, i mean bodyguards, armored trucks, etc). It takes shockingly little to get that qualification. It’s everything you listed where I live, without any technicalities or weird hoops, much easier than a carry permit, you don’t even need to have a formal personal protection or cash transport business. I know a bunch of people who got guard cards for the hell of it. The fact is the people who jump through all the hoops to get a permit are never the issue.
For one, I’m not sure what that has to do with this conversation. Generally speaking, the sort of person who carries a gun for work isn’t the same sort of person who thinks they need a gun to buy milk.
Second, bold of you to assume that people who don’t want to be around guns are entirely okay with them in the situations you mentioned. Most of them would rather not be around armed police, they would just prefer a police officer to a rando, because again, the cop didn’t get up and think “I better make sure I’m ready to kill people in case it comes up at the grocery store”.
Saw another post and thought of your response here… I think the difference is those of us who know what it takes absolutely feel more comfortable around people who have something to lose, because they do not conflate their position with expertise granting blanket immunity from consequences for their mistakes.
(cop startled by falling acorn, empties gun into occupied building) https://old.reddit.com/r/Idiotswithguns/comments/1aq4jjr/a_bit_excessive/kqaj4kh/
You seem to keep coming back to some belief that I hold cops in some esteem. I don’t.
For all the warts of the profession, they’re still a known quantity. You know why the cop has the gun. You know they completed their minimum of one semester of training and bare minimum psychological evaluation. You know they have a high school diploma.
Anyone else, you know that they could … Afford a gun. If it’s concealed, you know that they took an eight hour course in safety. You know rather little about their stability or anything else. You don’t know why they brought the gun.
In both cases, you also know that they likely exceed those minimums by a fair margin.
As mentioned, cpl holders tend to be enthusiastic and proficient, law abiding citizens. Where I live cops tends to have four year degrees on top of a full year of dedicated police training and supplementary medical training and continuing education requirements.
Again, don’t particularly want to have either around me, but one has less question marks.
Also, linking to idiots with guns isn’t a great way to testify to the responsibility of gun owners.
Funnily enough that is exactly what the cop said. If he gets a call to a grocery store about some violent dickhead, he may be right, too.
Not to mention the cops have a reputation of shooting unarmed black people, are actually statistically worse shots than CCW holders, and statistically commit less crimes than CCW holders.
So the difference there is that someone called the cops to the grocery store, as opposed to a rando taking their gun to buy milk.
Do you really not see the difference between a job where people pay you to carry a gun, and some random person deciding that they want to carry a gun just in case?
One has the job of “person we decided responds to violent situations, while they’re are work doing what we asked them to do”, and the other is "I have no idea who this person is, they’re wearing a dirty T-shirt, holding a cartoon of milk and wearing a pistol at the checkout line of this 7-11”.
With a cop, you have a known quantity and you know why they have the gun. With rando, you just know they have a gun, with no clue why.
Finally, you’re totally correct. That’s why a lot of people don’t exactly like being around armed police either.
Is it so hard to imagine that some people are made to feel less safe being around people with guns, and would like to avoid it where possible?
Well typically murderers don’t order victims by phone, no, unless we’re counting delivery drivers maybe, but that just means civilians “need to have it when they need it” more than the people who get advanced notice.
Do you really think victims of violent crime don’t need or deserve to protect themselves, simply because their job isn’t responding to others being victimized? Why do you think cops, which have less training hours than cosmetologists, are superheros somehow better than other civilians?
Btw I’ll give you a tip, usually the guy with a gun you have to worry about isn’t “some dirty prole open carrying,” it’s someone concealing it illegally and you’ll never know until it becomes a problem. Most legal carriers also carry concealed, so that dirty prole behind you in line “without a gun?” You can never be sure, he may in fact have one just under a thin layer of cotton/polyester blend.
Tbh, yes. If you live in America and don’t just “work, home, sleep” (if you go anywhere in public, a mall, the movies, church, anywhere) you likely pass a person with a gun at least one time a day and never even know. Being scared of everyone with a gun is honestly more irrational than just being scared of everyone because they could have a gun. I for one choose not to live my life in fear, if I see a person open carrying I just say “ayy cool is that the p365? How do you like that thing? I had to replace my p320 and got a p10c instead but I’ve been thinking about picking one of those up” and now I have a new, albeit “dirty shirted,” friend.
You seem to be taking this really personally.
You’ve started interjecting a lot of defensive talk about being a “prole”, and thinking that people who don’t feel safer in the presence of guns must live their lives in constant fear, or want to take guns away from people.
Re read what I said. I never said people shouldn’t be able to own guns, or carry them. I said people should be able to say “you need my permission to bring a gun into my home or business”.
I’ll be honest with you, I feel like I probably live my life in less fear than the person who needs to carry a gun everywhere to feel safe.
I just think it’s cute you imply people with dirty shirts are dangerous or not to be trusted and I’m making fun of that, if you didn’t catch it.
I agree with people’s right to choose on their own property, however I also find it laughable you’re scared of dirty people with guns but not people in blue shirts with guns nor dirty people with “maybe guns” you’re unaware of. These positions are not conflicting in any way, and you’re silly.
So you have no real argument, so just focusing on as hominim attacks and on blowing up one single thing they said once. Got it.
If by that you mean “you’re just making fun of a dumb thing I said.”
Yeah, basically.
Also I think it’s silly to be scared of people for a dumb reason but not be scared of others who could possibly have that same reason hidden under their shirt, but yes, you’re entitled to be naive if you so choose.