• Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        9 months ago

        It does. The term liberal comes from liberalism, which was founded during the Enlightenment. It isn’t an “American” thing to tie liberalism to liberals, it’s the definition.

        • Zozano@lemy.lol
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          9 months ago

          It’s the definition when you’re talking about liberalism for sure. But that’s not what I’m referring to. The other definition is the one which, in context, I am obviously referring to.

          one who is open-minded or not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional, or established forms or ways

          With the previous definition, it is clear I am talking about leftists. Context is king.

          But, lesson learned; don’t use the phrase liberal outside of a philosophical/academic context.

          • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            9 months ago

            Leftism isn’t a vague, general synonym for “goodness,” nor does it entitled you to use terminology for a right-wing ideology as a synonym for leftism. Even in a philosophical and academic concept, you’d get a bunch of confused looks.

            1. Capitalists can be open-minded and go against tradition without being left-wing.

            2. Left vs. Right isn’t about open-mindedness or a sense of futurism, it’s about collective vs. individual ownership of the Means of Production.

            3. Using an Enlightenment term for a Capitalist ideology as a term to describe leftists is wrong.

            That’s why everyone has been pointing out that you’ve been using terms incorrectly. You can either accept that you misspoke, and everyone can move on, or we will be stuck here.

            • Zozano@lemy.lol
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              9 months ago

              Honestly, let’s be stuck here. I’m tired of repeating myself. There’s nothing to be gained here, you understand what I was trying to say, even if you think my words were wrong, and that’s good enough for me.

              Don’t get me wrong, I’m not heated, I appreciate that you’ve helped me to understand that I can’t say liberal on the internet because people will misunderstand my intention.

              • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                9 months ago

                It’s more that you shouldn’t use right wing terms to refer to left wing ideas, it’s generally bad practice to pretend people believe in the opposite of reality.

                • Zozano@lemy.lol
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                  9 months ago

                  To be clear, when I did a few university classes on philosophy, the term liberal was used to mean how I was using it. It was not once used to mean anything other than that (except during the first time the concept was introduced to us, when the lecturer said the Australian Liberal Party isn’t liberal).

                  So for me, liberal is not a right wing term, it is inherently leftist.

                  • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                    9 months ago

                    It cannot be.

                    Leftism is not synonymous with forward thinking, nor synonymous with being open minded. Leftism is about worker ownership of the Means of Production.

                    Liberal, again, is focused on the Enlightenment philosophy Liberalism, which is characterized by espousing individual liberty and private property rights. It focuses on things like being open-minded and forward-thinking, like you’ve said, but you’re misattributing that to leftism.

                    You’ve also been incorrectly saying Americans miscategorize the term into a right-wing term. It’s the opposite, conservative fascists see liberals, who are still right-wingers, as leftists, due to the Overton Window. Liberals are still right-wing, and still espouse support for Capitalism.