Okay, so then who or how are you supposed to pay for the infrastructure for the remote start command to reach the car? The “free” option was using a Mazda developed API, on Mazda owned servers, with a cellular connection (again 3rd party has to pay for the infrastructure) to reach your car.
Yes it was an asshole move to remove the remote start from the key fob, but charging for the remote app is not an incredulous action since you have to pay for that infrastructure.
You can choose not to pay it, not use the anpp features and your car still perfectly functions as a car. If you think all that infrastructure should be included free, all that will cause is an across the board price hike for everyone’s car as they bake that maintenance cost into the price of the car, even if you don’t use the app.
The key fob remote start would be fine and for free. Or you could use local wifi instead of the open internet which is a security risk. This is anti consumer bullshit made to get a subscription where one is not required.
That’s the part I said was an asshole move. Removing it from the key fob. WiFi really isn’t feasible anywhere outside of your house, and even then only if it’s close enough to the house. How would you connect if you’re at work, in a parking garage or the far end of a parking lot?
The car can put out its own ad hoc wifi network or be added to your work network. Fobs have decent enough range too and so global access to my car via the internet is only marginally more convenient at best (and not sure I want it to be connected at all for security reasons tbh).
“Added to your work network”. Tell me you work at a mom and pop shop.
I work somewhere where my car is easily 2-300 yards away through multiple building and support structures in a garage. Adhoc WiFi isn’t reaching that far.
And for anyone in an apartment, there’s a good possibility they’re not near their car either. Or when they’re out shopping, or after a movie, etc.
There’s a multitude of places where BT or WiFi just doesn’t have the range, and you want to start your car early enough to warm it up or cool it down in more than the 20 steps line-of-sight that a fob, or one of those technologies can do it in. But ultimately it’s all a #firstworldproblem that we’ve created anyway.
You cannot copyright an API. They took down a foss project by using false copyright pretenses.
If you think all that infrastructure should be included free
That one I actually agree with, almost. Demanding infrastructure for free is unreasonable. It’s just that the feature is artificially locked to said infrastructure. It didn’t need it in the past.
Easy, do it all locally using local WiFi. It doesn’t need cellular to work, unless they wanted to charge for this. Major companies often get cellular for pennies anyways for mass deployments, and seeing their profits they could handle that.
How in the world would you use “local WiFi” outside of your house? What about all those people in apartments where their car isn’t near their house. Or at work in a parking garage? Would you expect it to get to connect to a randomly open access point?
That’s why I said removing it from the fob was the asshole move, but any app based version is going to most likely require a cellular connection for the car, which costs money to maintain
Then those can pay the $10/mo for the cellular based version. Or even then, one could just… provide their own SIM, if only they’d let you. Most carriers let you have an extra data only SIM to your line for fairly cheap for iPads and laptops, why not for your car?
The thing was deliberately engineer such that paying them is the only option. And those servers will inevitably get shut down at some point, making it all useless anyway.
My Audi used to back in 2013. Open the front panel and there were three slots. Two for SD cards (one nav, one music) and a SIM slot where you could bring your own. There were no connected services that you could use an app with, but it could access Google Maps, Yelp and have an in-car hotspot.
You bought the car for how ever many tens of thousands, which should be priced in with this sort of thing in mind if they want to offer it as a feature in the first place.
The cost to run the api service is minuscule compared to the size of their overall business.
Maybe I could see it as a valid upsell at time of purchase as a one off upfront fee, so it’s at least up to the buyer from the start. Although I personally do not like that approach, at least you can decide if you like that companies ethics before committing to them with that approach.
Perhaps resale of the vehicle complicates this a little, & might warrant a small transfer fee, but I also dislike that idea.
There’s plenty of options for more local communication technologies that could support this feature without the need of a remote server & ongoing service. But then there’s no lock in & ongoing revenue which nearly all car companies seem to be going for these days, as if they haven’t already been super profitable for many decades before…
Yeah I don’t get this at all. It’s like asking “who’s going to pay for all the shipping costs for the materials”, you. It’s baked into the price. A super light API call is fractions of a cent. They are getting bonuses in the millions, they can swing it.
Yes it was an asshole move to remove the remote start from the key fob…
You could have just stopped there. With remote start on the key fob, the infrastructure investment isn’t needed at all, and you go back to remote start being bundled into an option package like it always has been.
These fucking corporations with their nickel and dime subscription bullshit has to end, and the only way that happens is if more people say “fuck you, I’m not buying that car because you’re trying to subscribe people for technology already built into the car”.
Okay, so then who or how are you supposed to pay for the infrastructure for the remote start command to reach the car? The “free” option was using a Mazda developed API, on Mazda owned servers, with a cellular connection (again 3rd party has to pay for the infrastructure) to reach your car.
Yes it was an asshole move to remove the remote start from the key fob, but charging for the remote app is not an incredulous action since you have to pay for that infrastructure.
You can choose not to pay it, not use the anpp features and your car still perfectly functions as a car. If you think all that infrastructure should be included free, all that will cause is an across the board price hike for everyone’s car as they bake that maintenance cost into the price of the car, even if you don’t use the app.
The key fob remote start would be fine and for free. Or you could use local wifi instead of the open internet which is a security risk. This is anti consumer bullshit made to get a subscription where one is not required.
That’s the part I said was an asshole move. Removing it from the key fob. WiFi really isn’t feasible anywhere outside of your house, and even then only if it’s close enough to the house. How would you connect if you’re at work, in a parking garage or the far end of a parking lot?
The car can put out its own ad hoc wifi network or be added to your work network. Fobs have decent enough range too and so global access to my car via the internet is only marginally more convenient at best (and not sure I want it to be connected at all for security reasons tbh).
“Added to your work network”. Tell me you work at a mom and pop shop.
I work somewhere where my car is easily 2-300 yards away through multiple building and support structures in a garage. Adhoc WiFi isn’t reaching that far.
And for anyone in an apartment, there’s a good possibility they’re not near their car either. Or when they’re out shopping, or after a movie, etc.
There’s a multitude of places where BT or WiFi just doesn’t have the range, and you want to start your car early enough to warm it up or cool it down in more than the 20 steps line-of-sight that a fob, or one of those technologies can do it in. But ultimately it’s all a #firstworldproblem that we’ve created anyway.
I have two issues with Mazda here:
You cannot copyright an API. They took down a foss project by using false copyright pretenses.
That one I actually agree with, almost. Demanding infrastructure for free is unreasonable. It’s just that the feature is artificially locked to said infrastructure. It didn’t need it in the past.
Also that infrastructure is already being used to steal all you data anyway. Not paying the subscription doesn’t disconnect it.
Easy, do it all locally using local WiFi. It doesn’t need cellular to work, unless they wanted to charge for this. Major companies often get cellular for pennies anyways for mass deployments, and seeing their profits they could handle that.
How in the world would you use “local WiFi” outside of your house? What about all those people in apartments where their car isn’t near their house. Or at work in a parking garage? Would you expect it to get to connect to a randomly open access point?
That’s why I said removing it from the fob was the asshole move, but any app based version is going to most likely require a cellular connection for the car, which costs money to maintain
Then those can pay the $10/mo for the cellular based version. Or even then, one could just… provide their own SIM, if only they’d let you. Most carriers let you have an extra data only SIM to your line for fairly cheap for iPads and laptops, why not for your car?
The thing was deliberately engineer such that paying them is the only option. And those servers will inevitably get shut down at some point, making it all useless anyway.
A lot of cars have cell service… I’m not aware of any that allow for BYO SIM. It’s a great idea, though.
My Audi used to back in 2013. Open the front panel and there were three slots. Two for SD cards (one nav, one music) and a SIM slot where you could bring your own. There were no connected services that you could use an app with, but it could access Google Maps, Yelp and have an in-car hotspot.
You bought the car for how ever many tens of thousands, which should be priced in with this sort of thing in mind if they want to offer it as a feature in the first place.
The cost to run the api service is minuscule compared to the size of their overall business.
Maybe I could see it as a valid upsell at time of purchase as a one off upfront fee, so it’s at least up to the buyer from the start. Although I personally do not like that approach, at least you can decide if you like that companies ethics before committing to them with that approach.
Perhaps resale of the vehicle complicates this a little, & might warrant a small transfer fee, but I also dislike that idea.
There’s plenty of options for more local communication technologies that could support this feature without the need of a remote server & ongoing service. But then there’s no lock in & ongoing revenue which nearly all car companies seem to be going for these days, as if they haven’t already been super profitable for many decades before…
Yeah I don’t get this at all. It’s like asking “who’s going to pay for all the shipping costs for the materials”, you. It’s baked into the price. A super light API call is fractions of a cent. They are getting bonuses in the millions, they can swing it.
You could have just stopped there. With remote start on the key fob, the infrastructure investment isn’t needed at all, and you go back to remote start being bundled into an option package like it always has been.
These fucking corporations with their nickel and dime subscription bullshit has to end, and the only way that happens is if more people say “fuck you, I’m not buying that car because you’re trying to subscribe people for technology already built into the car”.