We know what happens with peaceful protests, elections, and foreign interference (and more foreign interference), so how can Palestine gain it’s freedom? Any positive ideas are welcome, because this situation is already a humanitarian crisis and is looking bleaker by the day.
Historical references are also valuable in this discussion, like slave revolts or the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, although hopefully in the case of Palestine a peaceful and successful outcome can be achieved, as opposed to some of the historical events above.
Here’s my take on it:
Thanks for sharing your take. It seems like a lot of people think Palestine needs to do stuff but Israel doesn’t. I’m not sure if it’s a double standard, racism, Israeli exceptionalism or what.
Do you mean the Palestine Civil War?
In my case, it’s none of that. It’s your question: “how can Palestine gain its freedom”.
Now let’s be crazy for a moment and imagine that both sides collaborate to fix the issue. I think it would be mostly the same for Israel: get rid of the lunatics, realize that Palestinians are fairly close relatives, work on forgiveness on both sides, and work on a fair two-state solution or even better a single-state solution.
Sure, not insinuating anything about you personally. It’s just that very few people would say “Israel should adhere to the 1967 borders” or "Israel should respect UN resolution 181” or any variation on Israel respecting international law.
I’ve heard a lot of people say exactly that, that Israel should adhere to those borders etc.
A large problem is that while there was a chance for that, Palestine and surrounding nations didn’t accept it, and invaded Israel instead. (Whereupon Israel fought back and expanded their borders.)
So despite being UN mandated, it’s not like there was a nice clean solution there that would work if only Israel (and/or Palestine) respected it.
Besides, the UN aren’t “Boss of the World”; they’re a diplomacy effort. That’s a bit of a tangential discussion, but I feel sometimes people treat it as if the UN have a God-given mandate to govern the world, which isn’t really true and muddies the context I think. Not that their involvement isn’t valuable - but it’s still involvement not okay daddy’s finally going to fix things since you two can’t play nice
Hamas exists because the PLO was gaining too much political power for Israel to keep stonewalling them; Hamas was funded by far-right Israeli politicians specifically to prevent the PLO from doing all of what you describe.
Yes you are. Who is gonna do this “diplomatic lobbying”? The US? Some EU country? Most of the mightiest economic and military powers on earth materially support Israel’s genocide, whether it’s economically or militarily, because they have important geopolitical interests in keeping Israel going to maintain influence on the west Asia region through it. Don’t expect them to stop anytime soon, especially not because you asked them to.
No genocide has ever stopped because other countries asked it, that’s literally not a thing. Whether it is the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa, the civil right movement in the US, the independence movements in Vietnam, Algeria, Haiti, etc or even the genocide of Jews and Slavs by Nazi Germany, every oppressive system, from “simple” economic discrimination to outright genocide of entire populations, that were successfully stopped were stopped by resistance movement who didn’t hesitate to use violence and warfare when necessary.
Hamas and the other organisations operating in Gaza have a lot of problems and religious extremism and bigotry is certainly a problem, but the thing is, they are the ONLY peoples doing something on the ground about the genocide and stopping Israel from putting their bloody boots on Gazan soil and create settlements there. Calling for dismantling is the materially equivalent to calling for the end of all Palestinian resistance, because regardless of what you think of them they are the resistance. The Palestinians have literally no one else to defend them.
Your call for disbanding them is nothing more than rambling of a spoiled, probably white (sorry for assuming), westerner who who has never experienced them mildest form of discrimination, and want to oppose the Palestinian genocide but who, instead of working with what is available and trying to make it better, has decided to whine that the idea of supporting hooded AK-47 wilding openly Muslim Arab don’t make them feel comfy enough. Sorry, but the Palestinians have other more important things to give a fuck about than making you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
And you are rationalizing this position together with you circle jerk by repeating ad nauseum the insane, unsubstantiated smearing of the resistance peddled by peoples who want to keep the genocide going.
You are also naïve to think that the solution you are proposing would solve anything at all of even change your position on this issue.
Let’s assume this happen, Hamas and the other resistance groups are disbanded and a group with whatever aesthetic makes you comfortable is created. What do you think would happen then? That they would win the heart of you spoiled lot and everything will be good? No. Let me tell you what would happen. As soon as this new group start to take actions, the Israeli and western propaganda machine are gonna start getting to work slandering and smearing this new group, accusing it of every sin just like they did with Hamas, and you peoples are gonna swallow it all like you always do and start asking to dissolve this new group too.
You are one of the “white moderates” that Martin Lutter King Jr denounced: Just like you are today against Hamas and the Houthis for “being terrorists”, if you were alive and/or following the events back then, you would have been against Nelson Mandela for “killing innocent whites peoples”, you would have been against MLK and Malcolm X for “disturbing the peace and organising illegal and violent protests”, you may not like it but this is the position you are defending right now regarding the genocide of Palestinians.
Supporting a negative peace which is the absence of tension is really a coward’s modus operandi.
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