Oh absolutely agreed, but the more discouraged apathetic voters, the more likely the Christo-fascists win. I have no interest in exacerbating that right now.

And an old sleepy man with a competent administration is still preferable to an old corrupt man with a Christo-fascist administration. It’s a sucky choice, but an extremely easy one.

It was likewise 90 minutes of confirmation that Trump is unfair for office: a non-stop steam of rambling nonsense and lies. A vote for Biden is a vote for a capable administration to do the actual work while grandpa sunsets. A vote for Trump is a vote for an administration of lackeys and con-man champing at the bit to turn the loot the country and turn it into a Christo-fascist kleptocracy.

If you think a Commander in Chief who is definitely going to betray the country for personal gain is an acceptance alternative to one who might make a mistake because he’s old, you deserve the hellscape you’ll get. The rest of us don’t though.

Republicans would accelerate genocide in the middle east, torture more Mexicans at the border, and genocide Ukrainians.

They are the ones actively advancing the aforementioned fascism. Like I said, the choice is between things slowly getting worse, and quickly getting worse. Slowly getting worse gives us more time to do something about it. Democrats losing is objectively worse for all your talking points, worse for Americans, worse for the world, and particularly worse for leftists.

I don’t know who’s side you think you’re on, but I certainly know what side your actions support. Either you’re deliberately trying to hurt the left, or you’ve unwittingly fallen for talking points that serve to hurt the left. I’m not interested in talking to propagandists or their feckless stooges.

Yes, which is why I added “exhausted” to highlight why that is undesirable.

This is pointless. You’re making things up. Show me which Democrats are pushing child labor and theocracy.

I’d rather my life slowly get worse than rapidly get worse, which is the alternative. Slowly getting worse buys time for grassroots. Trump will come down on grassroots. This is very simple logic, under no circumstance is Biden worse for socialists than Trump. This is ridiculous and you’re being willfully obtuse.

Yes, orders of magnitude. The only real world scenario that’s relevant (because again, child labor and theocracy are purely Republican initiatives) is Palestine. Biden is trying to reign in Netanyahu within the latitude afforded him by existing, congressionally determined defense agreements and the complex geopolitical landscape of the middle east. Trump loves Netanyahu and thinks he should hurry up with the genocide already. That is orders of magnitude worse.

The tiny minority of socialists aren’t capable of rallying large swaths of the population into countrywide action, this is true. But they can sway a slim minority of non-conservatives to sit out on an already dangerously close race. All they have to do is shave off a percent or two here or there to seal our fate.

I didn’t quote a poll, I said there were no polls supporting your conclusion. You assumed I was talking about a specific poll, and then attacked that poll.

Ipsos shows everyone but Harris and Michelle Obama well behind Biden.

Also on a treadmill you can run all the way until you can’t anymore, if you do this outside then you wind up exhausted and stranded.

Ignoring your unfounded claims? Yes, I will continue to do that, because you haven’t offered any proof for

these candidates are polling similar to Biden against Trump already.

other than just claiming it. And now that I’m asking for that proof, you’re pretending I’m changing the subject.

I’ll ask again: show me actual data which suggests Whitmer or AOC outperforms Biden against Trump in the general.

It seems like you’re deliberately diverting away from my point: both sides are bad, but one is orders of magnitude worse than the other. Quashing voter turnout with this doomer rhetoric helps the worse one win. Democrats having problems doesn’t stop Republican problems from being an existential threat to the future of our democracy, and any chance of leftward progress. You do realize this, right?

Which poll shows either Whitmer or AOC bearing Trump in the general?

Neither one polls better than Biden.

Who is “you guys”? What point are you trying to make with this both-sides stuff? Child labor and theocracy are exclusively being pushed by the Republicans, no Democrats are doing that. Even in the middle east, Democrats are tiptoeing through a nasty web of geopolitics, while it’s the Republicans who want to glass Palestine. Neo-Libs have a lot of problems, but it’s simply deranged to imply they’re anywhere near as evil as MAGA.

Who then, hmm?

I cut deals with my spouse all the time. Divvying up chores, watching shows, choosing meals, etc. This seems like it’s not that though.

Almostoutof Lumberpond’s cousin. I heard he was crucial in saving sexy from extinction

Again, actions I support. These actions, however, are not mutually exclusive to voting in elections for the lesser evil. In fact, these actions are more substantially suppressed under the greater evil. The rational action then is to use all avenues available to oneself, including but not limited to voting for whichever of the two dominant parties is less detrimental to action on other avenues.

One of the two dominant parties is objectively worse for the organization of the working class. Vote for the less worse party, while you organize and pressure the powers that be.

I’m all for socialism long term solution. I’m confused as to how that is an alternative to voting against the present greatest threat to socialism that can be voted against. What is the material implementation of “socialism” which provides a timely alternative to that action?

Optimists are aspirational. The placebo effect is real, and pessimists use it counterproductively.