I literally do blame the Democrats for Trump, and if you don’t, you weren’t paying attention.
Plenty of us were critiquing Clinton’s campaign on those merits and were consistently talked down to in shocker the same way we’re being talked down to now. Shocker, she lost. I remember saying a few weeks before the election “We’re about to get Brexited.” I put my vote down for Clinton, because Trump is fucking insane, and that was clear before he was President. It was clear in the fucking 1980’s.
Being able to critique our leaders is supposed to be what is the difference between us and conservative voters. They’re the cult who unquestioningly believes all the bullshit that comes out of Trump’s mouth and diapers. I find it weird that people think we should be more like them in regards to our leaders like that would be a good thing.
You must log in or register to comment.
Hillary Clinton’s campaign was poorly run, but she didn’t invent Trump or get millions of people to vote for him. Trump was set up by 25+ years of extremist Republican media - people like Limbaugh, Murdoch, O’Reilly - and enabled by the “liberal” mainstream media, who wouldn’t stop talking about his stupid shit for the 2 years leading up to the campaign, and are doing the same thing this time.
Just a reminder that Clinton had deep press connections and so acting like her elevating of Trump didn’t impact other media sources is a bit disingenuous. It was a campaign strategy to elevate Trump, and that included working with “friendly” journalists.
Did people forget that Correct the Record were literally keyboard warriors employed by the DNC to go and do exactly the kind of shit I’m complaining about online. Shitting all over progressives and forum sliding?
You forget the democratic party isn’t the progressive party. Look at New Hampshire. When Bidens not on the ballot people are writing him in. Democrats are a big tent you can’t just boot out the centrists or the neo-liberals and expect to win anything.
It sucks, and it double sucks because fascism is looming and the Dems are pretending everything is status quo. They sit in a high tower thinking progress is something serfs will win all on their on and when they do they’ll be just as protective of the status quo. It’s delusional but we need these guys or we need to turn the 50% of Americans who don’t even want to be involved.
End of day we can criticize Biden but we don’t fucking have to keep on bringing up Hillary.
Democrats are a big tent you can’t just boot out the centrists or the neo-liberals and expect to win anything.
Wrong. You can expect the neo-liberals to fall in line in the exact same way they expect progressives to fall in line.
Progressives are not uniquely enlightened, and you cannot reliably expect them to be the “bigger man” indefinitely.
Hillary Clinton “elevated” Donald Trump? I must have missed that part
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-2016-donald-trump-214428/
Six months later, Clinton associates’ wariness of Bush and his likely financial firepower was still acute: Democratic pollster Celinda Lake wrote to Clinton adviser Minyon Moore to warn her that she’d been testing Bush’s economic message for a client. “It has been remarkably strong. Getting even half of african americans and democrats and two thirds of latinos. Some thought it ended too harsh. But the perspective on the economy has really worked. Now we didn’t tell people this was from bush. But it’s a warning."
So to take Bush down, Clinton’s team drew up a plan to pump Trump up. Shortly after her kickoff, top aides organized a strategy call, whose agenda included a memo to the Democratic National Committee: “This memo is intended to outline the strategy and goals a potential Hillary Clinton presidential campaign would have regarding the 2016 Republican presidential field,” it read.
“The variety of candidates is a positive here, and many of the lesser known can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right. In this scenario, we don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more ‘Pied Piper’ candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party,” read the memo.
“Pied Piper candidates include, but aren’t limited to:
• Ted Cruz
• Donald Trump
• Ben Carson
We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to [take] them seriously."
While the campaign also kept a close eye on Rubio, monitoring his announcement speech and tightly designing the tweeted responses to his moves, Clinton’s team in Brooklyn was delightedly puzzled by Trump’s shift into the pole position that July after attacking John McCain by declaring, “I like people who weren’t captured.”
Eleven days after those comments about McCain, Clinton aides sought to push the plan even further: An agenda item for top aides’ message planning meeting read, “How do we prevent Bush from bettering himself/how do we maximize Trump and others?"
OK nice copy and paste job. It’s says Clinton aides drew up a plan. Can you give me actual examples of Hillary Clinton elevating Donald Trump? Laugh at Trump supporters all you want, those that couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Clinton were target of foreign disinformation and let Trump get elected. Folks haven’t come to grips with that and it can happen again
She won the popular vote or are you stupid?
She lost the EC in states she didn’t campaign in.
I was curious. First state I saw she lost was florida.
Here she is campaigning in Florida
Second state I saw was Iowa
So, you’re just lying?
She didn’t campaign in Wisconsin following the party conventions, and her weak campaign in Michigan and Pennsylvania lost her what had been Democratic strongholds. She didn’t campaign in those states as much because she wrongly assumed she didn’t have to, whoops.
Those are the three states that were key to her loss, and yes, one of them she didn’t campaign at all in during the general election.
Well now that’s changing the tone. From “She lost the EC in states she didn’t campaign in.” to “She didn’t go to Wisconsin”. Something she literally regrets and talks about frequently.
https://www.businessinsider.com/hillary-clinton-pennsylvania-michigan-wisconsin-what-happened-2017-9
Democratic Convention ended July 28th. That gives her 103 days to election day. Obviously she’s going has to prioritize. You can blame it on poor strategy, but your malicious twist is silly.
Okay. Blame them all you want, just don’t stay home on Election Day. VOTE against Donald Trump as he’s the more immediate problem, then we demand voting reform…
No.
You sound like a reasonable member of society…
When self proclaimed “reasonable” people insist the only way to protect democracy is to act like it’s broken I don’t think that measure is useful. If you want to claim democracy is worth defending then I should be able to exercise the benefits of that democracy. But if you’re telling me I’m a bad person for doing that I have to ask you, a “reasonable” member of society, what benefit is democracy serving?
The dnc should have let Bernie Sanders become the nominatee like the voters wanted, instead of rigging the primary for Hillary.
It’s been adjudicated enough. Bernie was popular among the voters but Hillary moreso.
He had a second chance in 2020 and the advantages that came with being the frontrunner early on. Still lost.
Then all the selfish pieces of shit who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries can elect him in 2024 all on their own.
Yeah they’re already planning on it. They’re not gonna waste time on people who will be forever litigating something that was 3 election cycles ago. Most Bernie supporters voted for Hillary, just like he asked them to. Wonder who he’ll support this time.
Yeah they’re already planning on it.
Great. Best of luck. Don’t blame us when Biden loses.
Ah, yes, the fallacy where the Republicans are the de facto winners and the election is only up to what the Democrats do.
I mean, yeah, they ran a mediocre campaign, but there is a difference between “critiquing our leaders” and literally campaigning against them, and leftist in general have a hard, hard, HARD time with that one. Critique is for when you’re in power. You analize, you apply your newfound political power to create pressure, you postmortem what went wrong. Campaigns are for winning.
And every year we’re told it’s “not the time to critique the Democrats” because its “too close to an election.”
Dude, I’m pushing fucking fifty and this has been every year of my fucking life with this “this is not the time for critique” shit. When is gonna be a good time to critique them? Because it sure fucking feels like the argument is never or this wouldn’t have been going on since fucking Bill Clinton left the Presidency.
After an election seems like a good time to discuss what to do differently next time.
Post 2016 I was absolutely berated for thinking to critique what went wrong but sure I don’t remember what happened what is this gaslighting shit.
Sounds false
Okay, let’s break it down.
How about first half of the Trump presidency, when the Democrats needed to regroup, take stock of just how badly they screwed up and plan how to never do that again? I’d say that was a good time.
How about the first half of the Biden presidency, when the Democrats could actually pass legislation and position themselves to brand the nature of their term? That was a good time. Happy to engage then.
I know it sucks to not have an alternative. I get it. But going after the only side that is even vaguely functional because you think you’re holding “your guys” to account is not one of the set of options you have at the moment. Spend those good times to debate lobbying for deep, profound reform that unlocks the political system for more varied options, as opposed to making every election an existential choice between actual, explicit fascism and literally anything else.
Until you do that, these are your choices. Not liking the choices doesn’t change that fact.
How about first half of the Trump presidency, when the Democrats needed to regroup, take stock of just how badly they screwed up and plan how to never do that again? I’d say that was a good time.
That’s funny, because I was berated by people online for critiquing them at the time, too. Especially critiquing Clinton, how badly she ran her campaign, and how they had destroyed goodwill of progressives by putting their finger on the scale for Clinton. Sanders is a class act, and that’s why he stood behind Clinton.
Sorry, but I was still being assaulted with “BERNIE BRO!!!” during this time period, so you can take this perspective and shove it.
It really would have been a great time for the party to consider what happened, but they were busy doubling down on it being the voters fault and doing anything they could to shift blame away from their own mistakes. They were literally arguing in court it was their right to go in back rooms to smoke cigars to choose the candidate… come on…
Literally I have been talked down to every year of my adult life about this, because every year its too close to a mid-term election or a Presidential election.
So you still didn’t really address the elephant in the room which is progressives are never actually allowed to critique the party.
Your claims aren’t believable
I literally do blame the Democrats for Trump, and if you don’t, you weren’t paying attention.
Barack Obama had the opportunity to become the next FDR. Instead, we got a modern day Woodrow Wilson, more interested in shoring up domestic businesses and building out international military alliances than repairing the post-'08 damage to the housing economy or extending full public health benefits to a nation crippled by medical bankruptcies.
By the time he left office, he was running on… what? A Pacific Rim trade deal we didn’t need. A climate change crisis he’d failed to address. A slew of new military conflicts in the Middle East introduced under his administration that he’d originally promised to end. A federal court system he’d allowed his Senate rivals to hijack.
Hillary sucked. But far too little credit is afforded to the guy who had eight years to deliver on desperately needed federal reforms and - either through incompetence or unwillingness - failed to do so.
“Abortion is not my highest legislative priority.” -Obama 2009
Given the state of the economy at the time, I don’t blame him for this. He also said he believed marriage to be between a man and a woman back then. He evolved. If Obama joins Joe on the campaign trail I’m willing to bet he’ll be bringing up abortion because it’s getting voters motivated.
Given the state of the economy at the time
Except that he did fuck all about that either. Zero prosecutions just billions in bailouts for failing corporations while people were losing their homes.
