The issue is much, much larger than what Israel is doing to Gaza.
If you fail to vote for Harris, you allow Trump to win.
If Trump wins:
- He will encourage Israel to finish the genocide more quickly.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-biden-israel-pr-hugh-hewitt-21faee332d95fec99652c112fbdcd35d
- He will take Israel’s policy of illegally invading Lebanon as a “security zone” and apply it to Mexico:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_Southern_Lebanon
- He will set up internment camps in the United States for immigrants and others classed as “undesirable”:
- He will purge the government of any and all opposition:
- He wants to arrest journalists:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/06/politics/kash-patel-trump-administration/index.html
To be clear here, if Harris does not win, Trump will. Those are your two choices. You can choose to vote for Harris or you court disaster. There is no viable 3rd choice.
I will not vote for a pro-genocide candidate. Thats all that matters.
If you think genocide is a worthy trade off for those things, then you are free to think so. But I don’t. Genocide isn’t negotiable to me.
I don’t care that “at least Mussolini made the trains run on time”.
Harris is not pro-Genocide. Trump is.
“Let me be very clear: I am unequivocal and unwavering in my commitment to Israel’s defense and its ability to defend itself, and that’s not going to change,”
vs.
“They have to get it done. Get it over with and get it over with fast because we have to – you have to get back to normalcy and peace.”
One of those two people is going to be the next President.
Harris believes, rightly, that Israel has the right to defend itself the same as any other country.
The problem is, they haven’t actually been engaging in defense for some time now. That’s the fault with Israel and Bibi, not Harris.
Trump believes Gaza needs to be exterminated fast and would bring the worst Israeli policies here.
Harris is just as much pro genocide as Trump is. Out of one side of their mouth, they talk ceasefire, as they have just completed their 500th military weapons drop to Israel. That’s why Democrats cannot be trusted. We have listened to what they said and then watched what they do.
Absolutely, actions speak louder than words, and both parties have shown their true colors by fueling conflicts while pretending to advocate for peace.
Harris is not pro-Genocide. Trump is.
“Let me be very clear: I am unequivocal and unwavering in my commitment to Israel’s defense and its ability to defend itself, and that’s not going to change,”
Blatant genocide denial. Israels “defending itself” is conducting a genocide. She has “unwavering commitment” to that cause.
Harris believes, rightly, that Israel has the right to defend itself the same as any other country.
Yes, even if their definition of defense is conducting a genocide, she will not oppose them in that cause, she is pro Genocide.
The problem is, they haven’t actually been engaging in defense for some time now. That’s the fault with Israel and Bibi, not Harris.
And she has been supporting them while vowing to keep sending them weapons. That is on Harris, she supports their genocide and will continue aiding them in conducting it. She’s pro Genocide.
Edit:
Trump believes Gaza needs to be exterminated fast
Fast genocide and slow genocide, both are still genocide. Unless you’re arguing that since Israel hasn’t “exterminated them fast” that they haven’t been conducting a genocide…which it sounds like you actually do believe but don’t want to admit to.
It’s not genocide denial. Historically, Israel has been attacked from all sides and the position of the US government, since Israel’s creation, is that they have the right to exist and the right to defend themselves.
The problem is, under the Likud party, in Gaza and other territory, Israel moved from defense to offense. We supply them in good faith and they use those supplies in bad faith.
That is NOT the same thing as “ZOMG! You support genocide!”
If Iran decides to legit attack Israel, they will, and should, defend themselves with our weapons.
The problem is that’s not what they are using them for, and that’s on THEM. Not Harris.
since Israel’s creation, is that they have the right to exist and the right to defend themselves.
You lie that right when you become a genocidal apartheid state. Israel has as much right to exist and defend itself as Nazi Germany did.
The problem is, under the Likud party, in Gaza and other territory, Israel moved from defense to offense. We supply them in good faith and they use those supplies in bad faith.
So we see how they are actively using the weapons for genocide and continue providing them…that’s arming a genocide.
We don’t give them in good faith. We aren’t stupid, we see them doing genocide with the weapons and continue to send them, we are sending the supplies for bad reasons…
Remember the “humanitarian pier” we built that was put up, used to conduct a massacre, and taken down without delivering any aide?..
That is NOT the same thing as “ZOMG! You support genocide!”
What is it if not exactly them supporting genocide? Is there a genocide? Did they stop providing support?
If there is a genocide and they are supporting the ones carrying out the genocide, they are supporting a genocide…so which aspect are you denying?
The problem is that’s not what they are using them for, and that’s on THEM. Not Harris.
You say this like we can’t decide to stop sending them weapons. If they started using the weapons to attack us directly, we would stop arming them and even go to war most likely.
We just don’t deem a genocide as bad enough to warrant stopping aid…
I really don’t see how you can’t understand how gross this defense of genocide is. Just imagine:
It’s not genocide denial. Historically, Germany has been attacked from all sides (WW1) and the position of the US government, since post WW1 Germanys creation, is that they have the right to exist and the right to defend themselves.
The problem is, under the Nazi party, in Aushwitz and other territory, Germany moved from defense to offense. We supply them in good faith and they use those supplies in bad faith.
That is NOT the same thing as “ZOMG! You support genocide!”
If the USSR decides to legit attack Germany, they will, and should, defend themselves with our weapons.
The problem is that’s not what they are using them for, and that’s on THEM. Not FDR…
Every soverign nation has the right to self defense. Where Israel is going astray is the the same way the US went astray following 9/11… attacking and killing the wrong people and committing war crimes.
If Israel was ONLY targeting Hamas, nobody would have a problem with that.
The problem is the people in power in Israel see the Hamas takeover in 2007 as “Well, they’re all Hamas.”
Every soverign nation has the right to self defense. Where Israel is going astray is the the same way the US went astray following 9/11… attacking and killing the wrong people and committing war crimes.
Where Israel is going astray is the fact that they are an apartheid state (and always have been) and are performing a genocide.
As bad as we were after 9/11, we weren’t doing that.
If Israel was ONLY targeting Hamas, nobody would have a problem with that.
Yeah, in an alternate reality where they weren’t committing genocide, nobody would care. We don’t live in that reality, they are performing genocide and we are helping.
Stop trying to pretend they aren’t with hypotheticals.
The problem is the people in power in Israel see the Hamas takeover in 2007 as “Well, they’re all Hamas.”
Yes, they are doing genocide. We should stop them, or at least stop arming and supporting their genocide.
I still genuinely fail to see how this isn’t blatant genocide denial when you are actively trying to justify Israels ongoing genocide and our support for it. Wtf.
Who are you voting for, then?
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Removed, see the civility guidelines.
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Removed, accusing a mod of being a paid actor for China is not going to win friends and influence people.
Temp ban, 3 days.
Antmz22 may not be “paid,” but they are definitely an actor. The kind that you seem to be very in favor of. So I can see where they may consider you to be as well. Or, at least sympathetic to authoritarian communism propaganda.
Probably Mohammed Deif tbh.
It would be about as helpful as voting for anyone else.
I’m not sure who they are.
Are they qualified to be a US president?
He is the head of the Al-Qassam brigades…the front line fighting against Israels genocide…
He’s more qualified than the others. He fights genocide, the very same genocide both candidates with a chance support.
You have to be 35 years old, a natural born citizen and lived in US for at least fourteen years so he fits all of those?
Hes old.
I don’t really care about any of that though. It’s not like he’d win lol.
The point is that anyone who is anti-Genocide is more worthy of a vote than anyone who is pro-Genocide.
I’m sorry people are being assholes to you.
If you decide you want to vote for a us political party, PSL is running LaRiva on a platform of Palestinian statehood and an end to arms shipments to Israel.
PSL has its problems, but I think it’s the best response to this moment in America.
“I care about Palestinians so much that I’m willing to sacrifice their future well being for my poorly formed but intractable political ideals.”
Ok.
Are you denying the ongoing genocide that Kamala Harris and the Democrats are supporting and vowing to continue supporting?
A vote for Kamala is a vote for Genocide of Palestinians.
K.
200+ comments, account is less than a week old. Lol
Aug 14 -Aug 31 is not less than a week lmfao.
Literally what sort of alternative reality do all you pro Genocide ghouls live in?
The reality where we aren’t pro fucking genocide we just aren’t pro “throw our democracy away because we aren’t able to stop them from funding Isreal.”
There is no reality where we get to have our cake and eat it too. We either get pro military industrial complex, or pro military industrial complex and the upending of our country.
Not much of a choice. There is no reality where in the handful of months we have left we are somehow able to get everyone to go 3rd party… It absolutely fucking sucks but that’s why we hate money in politics and corporate media so much.
"We must support Hitler because it’s too late to oppose him now, that would actually just hurt us AND the ones he’s genociding so why risk it?’ ~ you in 1941
I personally commend everyone who stood up to the genocidal Nazi regime, no mattter how hopeless it looked. And I feel the same about the US-Israeli genocide regimes.
He’s a disorder troll, just stop engaging.
We’re told over and over that there’s no other choice, that we must accept the status quo or risk everything. But by clinging to the same corrupt system, we ensure that nothing changes.
The real power comes from breaking free of this false dichotomy and demanding a better future.
We won’t get there by continuing to prop up the same broken system. If we don’t start challenging it now, when will we ever?
I definitely agree, and there needs to be a time for this (my best thought is after ranked choice voting) but my point was more about right now.
With just a few months left and with the media ecosystem we have there’s like a 0.000001% chance we get enough people to vote green or whatever 3rd party.
but my point was more about right now.
And my point is that it’s always about right now.
Every election, we’re told the same old story: “Yes, things need to change, but not this time. This election is just too important. Look at what’s on the line!” But I’ve seen this game played out time and again. I’ve been casting my vote since 1988, and every single time, both parties sing the same tune: “Change is needed, but not today, not this time. Not this election.”
I respect your right to vote for whoever you believe in, but for me, I’m done with this duopoly that’s been squeezing the life out of real progress.
I’m done with being bullied into maintaining the status quo. I won’t cast my vote out of fear or because someone says it’s the only way to win.
I’m voting for the party that truly reflects my values, the party that dares to challenge this system, no matter the odds.
If we want to see real change, we have to start with ourselves.
I’m proudly voting third party this year, not because it’s easy, but because it’s necessary.
I’m being the change I want to see. If you believe in Harris, by all means, cast your vote. But as for me, I won’t. My vote is for a future that matches my beliefs, not the fear-driven present that keeps us shackled to a broken system.
You will however allow the most pro genocide voter to decide the election for you.
Good for you.
Do you deny that there is currently a genocide carried out by Israel?
Do you deny that Kamala has vowed to continue supporting Israel?
If not, then a vote for Kamala is a vote for genocide and by voting for her I would become one of those “pro-genocide voter”.
No I don’t. I recognize reality and refuse to allow the most genocidal candidate to win.
How about you? Do you just accuse people on the internet of stupid shit, desperate to make enemies…
Or do you try to build a coalition to prevent the most genocidal candidate from winning?
Sounds like you just talk shit…
There is no viable 3rd choice.
I’m choosing 3rd party anyway.
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No, not throwing it away at all. I’m voting for who I want to.
Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. If the forces of democracy take decisive, terroristic action against the reaction from the very beginning, the reactionary influence in the election will already have been destroyed.
Karl Marx 1850
I’m pretty sure Marx lived in a country with a parliamentary system. Not a two-party, first past the post system.
If you don’t understand what the difference is with regards to election outcomes, then I don’t know what to tell you.
It’s absurd to pretend that the situation he’s referring to is anything close to what’s happening now.
It’s true that Marx lived in a different political system, but the soul of his critique goes beyond the specifics of electoral structures.
Marx’s analysis of class struggle and the concentration of power and wealth in the hands of a few is pretty much as relevant today as it was back then, regardless of whether we’re talking about a parliamentary system or a two-party, first-past-the-post system.
Exploitation of the working class and the manipulation of political systems to serve the interests of the ruling class is still very very much present in our current system.
To dismiss Marx’s ideas because the electoral mechanics are different misses the bigger point.
No matter the system, those in power will often rig it to maintain their dominance and suppress genuine alternatives that threaten the status quo.
Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body.
YES!!!
That is fucking beautiful. And it’s incredible to see that what was true in 1850 is still just as true today. Thank you for that! Love it.
I’m gonna have to start using parts of that quote in some of my replies to the Lemmy bullies and people who are spreading discontent under the guise of just helping out their party, but who are really just protecting their capitalistic advantages under a corrupt duopoly.
Many on Lemmy seem to not don’t want change or are they are afraid to speak up for it. Because of Republican AND Democrat bullies.
W E B DeBois in 1956
In 1956, I shall not go to the polls. I have not registered. I believe that democracy has so far disappeared in the United States that no “two evils” exist. There is but one evil party with two names, and it will be elected despite all I can do or say. There is no third party. On the Presidential ballot in a few states (seventeen in 1952), a “Socialist” Party will appear. Few will hear its appeal because it will have almost no opportunity to take part in the campaign and explain its platform. If a voter organizes or advocates a real third-party movement, he may be accused of seeking to overthrow this government by “force and violence.” Anything he advocates by way of significant reform will be called “Communist” and will of necessity be Communist in the sense that it must advocate such things as government ownership of the means of production; government in business; the limitation of private profit; social medicine, government housing and federal aid to education; the total abolition of race bias; and the welfare state. These things are on every Communist program; these things are the aim of socialism. Any American who advocates them today, no matter how sincerely, stands in danger of losing his job, surrendering his social status and perhaps landing in jail. The witnesses against him may be liars or insane or criminals. These witnesses need give no proof for their charges and may not even be known or appear in person. They may be in the pay of the United States Government. A.D.A.'s and “Liberals” are not third parties; they seek to act as tails to kites. But since the kites are self-propelled and radar-controlled, tails are quite superfluous and rather silly.
They use the same tactics for decades and liberals fall for them every single time
Wow, that’s a fantastic read! I might have to borrow some of those words to fuel my fight against the capitalist barrage I face daily on here, just because I refuse to support the duopoly that so many are clinging to.
another winning post from the downvote king.
another winning post from the downvote king.
If speaking truth to power and challenging the status quo makes me the “downvote king,” then I gladly accept the crown.
Brothers and sisters who fear the kind of bullying I face, wear your downvotes like a badge of honor, just as I do. Every downvote is a sign that the capitalist defenders are feeling the pressure of our righteous cause—and that, my friends, is how you know we’re on the right path.
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More like the bad faith actor king. Good job helping Republicans. You can feign ignorance but the proof is in the pudding.
More like the bad faith actor king. Good job helping Republicans. You can feign ignorance but the proof is in the pudding.
Ah, the old accusation of bad faith—a tired tactic used by those who can’t stand to see the working class rise up against the status quo.
You call me the “bad faith actor king,” but I say it’s those who cling to a broken system who are acting in bad faith.
I’m not here to play by the rules set by the very forces that oppress us; I’m here to shatter those chains and expose the truth.
If standing up for workers’ rights and challenging the duopoly makes me a threat to your cozy alliance with the establishment, then I wear your insults like armor.
The proof isn’t in the pudding, my friend—it’s in the political revolution that’s building momentum. It might not happen this election or the next, but rest assured, people are growing weary of the duopoly. We won’t be bullied into submission, and we won’t stop fighting for true change.
And we’re not voting for your candidate. Or for the republicans.
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Twenty three days, one thousand seven hundred and twenty three comments or posts.
That’s one comment or post almost every nineteen minutes.
deleted by creator
Muslim voters are nevertheless poised to exact revenge on the VP at the ballot box
What a mature read of politics. The US is so fucked. Thinking along these lines Harris will get the final revenge when Trump wins and Israel actually completes the genocide because of it. Genius.
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Harris will get the final revenge when Trump wins and Israel actually completes the genocide because of it.
You say this as if Kamala has vowed to stop the genocide when she has done the opposite.
Israel will not be completing the genocide because of Trump, they will be completing the genocide because Trump and Kamala agree on letting them complete the genocide.
While Democratic party loyalist voters refuse to use the little power they have (theur vote) to even threaten Kamala to move away from genocide.
I’m curious: do you believe democrats en masse are anti-genocide?
Do you believe that if all the Democrats who opposed the genocide vowed not to vote for Harris unless she stopped it (or atleast expressed a desire to), that she would do so?
do you believe democrats en masse…?
I believe democrats en masse are keenly aware of the fact that civilian casualties are an intentional strategy of radical islam to discourage resolve, and unwilling to allow this strategy to remain viable anymore. More importantly, they are far more concerned with the internal consequences of losing to trump than about any foreign policy.
…that she would do so?
No. For one, they are too small and polarizing a minority to make catering to their myopic demands a worthwhile gambit. Her campaign is also smart enough to call the bluff. There is no other option. Vote 3rd party, trump wins. Vote trump, he wins. His winning results in Muslim bans and bulk weapons shipments to Netanyahu with zero hesitation or restrictions.
The time for platform adjusting shenanigans was before the DNC. Is it fair there were no primaries? No. Does that justify being stuck in a mindset that the primaries are still possible? Also no
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🙄
Yes, roll your eyes like you roll them at the Palestinian peoples suffering
Harris and Stein tied at 29%, with 11% of the cohort’s support going to Donald Trump
She’s tied…for first place among Muslim voters. And Trump is getting almost 2/3rds less.
Yeah if anything the story is stein is stomping Trump
And yet many Lemmys will just downvote anyway cuz, well, “third party bad.”
I feel like you don’t understand what the person you’re responding to is saying.
I understood perfectly. And I posted my own opinion. To this public opinion community. As I am allowed to.
Trump wants to nuke Gaza, pave over the remains and build one of his shitty hotels there. He would also deport Muslims and send those who don’t leave to internment camps. Explain to me how both sides are the same.
Trump wants to nuke Gaza, pave over the remains and build one of his shitty hotels there.
You say this like Kamala has vowed to end the genocide, when in fact she has vowed to support the ones carrying it out.
Explain to me how both sides are the same.
They’re both pro-genocide.
Trump’s vile ideas are monstrous, no doubt, but let’s not pretend the Democrats are clean when they continue to fund and support military actions that devastate lives in Gaza and beyond.
Both sides perpetuate violence and oppression in their own ways—whether it’s through blatant aggression or complicit support.
The difference lies in the packaging, not the substance.
It’s my opinion that it really is the same system, two faces, both indifferent to the real suffering they cause.
You disagree, and I respect your right to do that. As I’m sure you respect mine.
Who says the Dems are clean? Most leftists I know openly acknowledge she’s so far from perfect but they’d still take her over Trump.
Are you really telling me Trump and Harris are the exact same? Like give me a break. Why is Harris 3x more popular than Trump among Muslim voters?
Who says the Dems are clean?
Not me.
Are you really telling me Trump and Harris are the exact same?
Both sides perpetuate violence and oppression in their own ways—whether it’s through blatant aggression or complicit support.
Why is Harris 3x more popular than Trump among Muslim voters?
Everyone has their own opinions. I support and respect people’s right to have a different opinion than me. Just as you respect and support my right to my own opinions. Yes?
deleted by creator
Dear Muslims, here let me just give you a gun pointing straight back to you. Might as well just commit self suicide with this “revenge” vote you are throwing away.
Eh, Trump or Harris, in the end of the day it will be the same. Gaza will be wiped out but at least one won’t come after you here in the US, but again eh. Sign your own death warrant.
:)
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