How weird that Elon Musk didn’t build a small fire extinguishing submarine.
Inb4 he calls the firefighters pedophiles
Ow wow he guardian using a real headline.
Edit: nevermind OP had to change the propaganda.
Yikes, seeing people come out of the woodworks to defend slavery…
Person from Star Trek instance defending slavery is epsecially baffling, could be Gul Dukat alt account.
… Founders enter the chat …
Slavery should be abolished.
This shouldn’t be a controversial beleif in 2025.
It is for a lot of people below for some reason.
deleted by creator
Lmfao at the absolutely classic .world responses in this thread. “Slavery is good actually”. You guys play your role too a T.
Remember, these are the people calling leftists “authoritarians”
So I think enslaves is a bit much here.
This is a voluntary program, and I’m not getting the impression it’s the do this or we punish you voluntary either.
Meanwhile there are actual prisons that will force labor or severely punish you for refusing. That’s enslaved.
It’s also possible that the fire fighting is voluntary, but if not this, it would have been other mandatory slave work.
Yes there are slaves in prison, I’m just not entirely sure this specific circumstance is it. They are getting slaves wages though.
America incarcerates people for a ridiculous time and then lets them ‘voluntarily work to shorten their sentence’. It’s slavery with a little semantics.
As long as it’s not forced (truly voluntary with no punishment otherwise) it’s still not enslaving them.
I’m not saying it’s good, but the title has an agenda.
Edit: Actually, the POSTER has the agenda, not the article. OP used the world enslaves. The actual article title is ‘Essential’: nearly 800 incarcerated firefighters deployed as LA battles wildfires. This is why a lot of places have no editorializing the titles rules.
What do you think about indentured servitude being called slavery?
I agree that’s slavery.
There is slavery in the US prison system as well.
These prisoners are supposedly doing this specific job voluntarily, with pay. That is not indentured servitude.
These prisoners are supposedly doing this specific job voluntarily, with pay.
-
Being voluntary doesn’t contradict slavery. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_slavery
-
Being paid $0.50 an hour, as opposed to $0.00 an hour, is trivial. If the slave-owners of old societies gave their slaves a penny a day, they would still be slaves for all intents and purposes.
While I personally haven’t looked into this specific case, there is a very consistent and ongoing history of forced prison labor in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century#Prison_labor
Inmates who refuse to work may be indefinitely remanded into solitary confinement, or have family visitation revoked. From 2010 to 2015 and again in 2016 and in 2018, some prisoners in the US refused to work, protesting for better pay, better conditions, and for the end of forced labor. Strike leaders were punished with indefinite solitary confinement.
That is forced work on an imprisoned person upon threat of punishment, even if they can theoretically decline it. This is a form of slavery, even if they get paid a dollar an hour.
That is forced work on an imprisoned person upon threat of punishment, even if they can theoretically decline it.
There is a history of this yes, but there is no signs that this is happening with this specific situation. I even said, if this case had that, it would be slavery.
The website for the program, while can’t be fully trusted, explicitly states that this is not the case
An incarcerated person must volunteer for the Conservation (Fire) Camp Program and meet all eligibility criteria meant to protect public safety. No one is involuntarily assigned to work in a fire camp. Thus, incarcerated people do not face disciplinary action if they choose not to serve their time in a fire camp.
Edit: And just to be clear - Yes, they might be forced to do something else if not this, but that’s probably up to the prison specifically. That alternative would be slavery, but these people are freely volunteering. They were not enslaved into this as OPs editorialized title implies.
Thanks for bringing up that program site (link, for convenience)
Like you said, it’s hard to know the internal situation in the prison, so it’s reasonable to want to avoid labeling this specific case as slavery or not without further evidence. The title is ultimately subjective, rather than the objective titles a news community typically encourages (by ‘subjective’, I’m referring to the fact that different worldviews have different interpretations of slavery, even up to the point where many through history consider regular work to be wage slavery based on a holistic analysis of labor in society)
-
Voluntarily risking their life for 5 to 10 bucks a day. Suuure.
If you’d like to provide any proof that these fire fighters are not doing this voluntarily and are coerced into it with some sort of punishment if not, please go ahead and provide it. Specifically this job, not others.
Also, you do realize that many fire fighters across the world are voluntary, in some cases the entire fire department is voluntary. People do risk their lives for this job for free.
And slaves voluntarily worked on the cotton fields. Great trolling.
deleted by creator
Fire camp is a program that most prisoners actually want to get into. They get to learn useful skills, the accommodations are better, and the prisoners there don’t want to get removed from the program so they’re unlikely to be violent. I have a friend who spent 3 years in that program and he greatly preferred it to the prison he transferred from.
Tolerable accommodations, learning skills that can be put to use on the outside, and no fear of violence should be some of the basics of a prison system. The fact that our prison system is so fucked that slavery seems like a better deal isn’t a credit to slavery, it’s evidence of a horrifically broken prison system.
Our prison system absolutely has some major flaws, but fire camp is what you said, tolerable conditions, the ability to learn job skills and work outside, and learn a skill. You can’t guarantee safety from violence among violent people unless they are isolated, and that’s a worse punishment than anything. What I’m saying is that your criticisms of the general prison system aren’t applicable to fire camp, because it offers the things you mentioned.
you’re missing the point: the slaves who embrace their slavery are treated better than the slaves who resist; like slaves are supposed to do.
deleted by creator
And then when they get out they can’t use those skills because their criminal record prevents fire departments from hiring them.
Cal-fire will hire them directly out of prison if they’ve completed the program.
Getting paid 50 cents an hour to get put in a life-threatening situation because the state doesn’t want to hire firefighters, and would rather pay its prison population a pittance.
Are you under the impression that these prisoners are the only people fighting the fires in California? That is not the case, if that’s your impression.
Apologies, yes california does employ some ppl to fight fires with the help of some slaves, my bad.
deleted by creator
Good people don’t make excuses to abuse human beings.
You’re a bad person.
deleted by creator
don’t make excuses to abuse human beings
You realize that’s not what you’re replying to, right? That suggesting lots of people are fighting fires doesn’t actually advocate for slavery; right?
Your quick condemnation was neat-o, though.
The post they’re replying to is nitpicking. What difference does it make to this argument if only some of the firefighters are slaves? The point is that slave labor is being employed to avoid paying all the people fighting the fire a reasonable amount.
Always a little disturbing to see these comments. Cause every single time they are made I see phrases like “most prisoners” just straight up acknowledging that it’s not all. Hand waving that away. Creepy.
Not to mention other things like, is it actually true that most prisoners would want to get put in a life threatening situation?
And why are we not acknowledging that the US regime gives prisoners these “choices”: go outside and die for the state, work on our prison farms, get contracted out to private companies, or stare at a wall in a cell. Truly an evil empire that should not be apologized for.
It’s worse. If the basic prisonfood is insufficient, which is common. prisoners need to work to buy more nutritional meals. Or they can risk getting sick and dying, whichever.
Well how would you suggest we deal with people who harm other people? If you can’t put them in a cell, and you can’t make them work, and you can’t teach them to be wilderness firefighters and have them perform those duties, then what do you propose?
There aren’t many countries that employ slave labor like the US. You think they’re the rule but they’re the exception. Just because the US enslaves their prisoners doesn’t mean most other countries do too.
Removed by mod
That’s avoiding the question and changing the subject though. I don’t disagree with you on this point. But many of them do deserve to be there, my friend included, so how do you propose they’re dealt with given the limitations you’ve placed on the system? What does your prison look like?
Edit: I just realized you’re not the person who I was replying to originally, so I apologize for saying “you said”.
Given your history, I have my doubts that your friend is real, and one doesn’t need a holistic crime reduction plan in order to be anti-slavery.
You know nothing about me, let alone “my history”. That’s also what I suspected, you have no proposed solutions, only complaints. You can’t support your own argument, so instead you attacked me. I’m not pro-slavery, dufus, I’m acknowledging that fire camp is a good program for dealing with criminals, many of whom have hurt people and society, while also providing them with an opportunity to learn job skills, and work outside. For the record I’m opposed to the vast majority of the US prison system, especially the length of confinement.
I don’t presume to know the minds of every person. I do know that my friend was glad to get into the program, as was everyone else he told me about who was in it.
Then why do you need slavery?
Just let prisoners apply for jobs like sane countries
If you’re not presuming that then why did you say most prisoners instead of just the one single one you claim to know?
Do you lack reading comprehension?
“as was everyone else he told me about who was in it”
So you’re supposed friend told you about most of the prisoners in the program? What percentage precisely?
That just shows how bad the alternatives are.
Yes the alternatives suck. But are you aware that there’s people who volunteer to be wilderness firefighters for free? Fire camp is a good program.
When was the last time you fought wildland fires for free?
Removed by mod
Wrong. They are slaves under the 13th amendment of the US, which explicitly allows slavery as punishment for a crime. Some more on this:
The US currently operates a system of slave labor camps, including at least 54 prison farms involved in agricultural slave labor. Outside of agricultural slavery, Federal Prison Industries operates a multi-billion dollar industry with ~ 52 prison factories , where prisoners produce furniture, clothing, circuit boards, products for the military, computer aided design services, call center support for private companies. 1, 2, 3
- The US has the highest incarceration rates in the world. Even individual US states outrank all other countries.
It is slavery, as allowed for under the US constitution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_exception_clause
It’s not involuntary, though. They have to apply for the program, and can stop if they want.
I’d like to introduce you to the concept of being “volun-told.” Basically, it’s “volunteer, or be forced. Your choice.”
Unless no one volunteers. Then they’re forced to do it upon threat of torture and further loss of rights, and usually more prison time added.
There is nothing voluntary about labor coerced.
Citation needed.
Just like you can quit your job any time you want?
Damn the consequences or any repercussions. Because there’s always the freedom of being destitute.
Well, yes, just like me and my job, they can quit. What part of that suggests slavery?
They’re incarcerated while I presume you are not. Apart from all the involuntary aspects of prison life, inmates are not allowed to negotiate individually or organize for better pay and conditions. They cannot choose a different employer. The freedom to choose to go to the fire camp or stay within the prison under conditions designed to coerce them to work isn’t really freedom. They’re slaves.
Huh, apropos name…
Do you think there aren’t consequences for prisoners that refuse this “voluntary” service?
I might feel better about this program if they’re allowed to join after they get out of prison. But, because they were in prison, they are not allowed to join fire brigades. I feel that is cruel, and stupid.
It’s literally slave labor.
Seems figurative, but that’s just the dictionary.
How so?
Prisoners have limited rights to refuse anything. They are not fairly compensated for theor work and in other states the prisons “loan” prisoners to companies to do work who pay the prisons for this work.
It’s slavery. The USA never banned slavery for prisoners. It’s literally in the 14th amendment.
Don’t bother responding, they’re sealioning.
Thank you, I will stop here.
