These people sound like exact copies of the people saying voting in 2000 didn’t matter, and that turned out to be the most politically consequential of my lifetime. Gore was imperfect as they all are, but holy fuck did Dubya fuck up literally everything he touched.
Among many, many, many things, Dubya started forever wars killing untold hundreds of thousands of people. He accelerated oil and gas production, absolutely setting the Climate Change world on a pace for disaster. He seated Alito, unquestionably the biggest monster currently on the Supreme Court. And he passed a monster tax cut for the rich that set us on this path of unrestrained deficit spending.
And that’s just the headlines. Remember when he tried to put his personal lawyer on the Supreme Court? lol
Gen X already tried this 25 years ago and it fucked the world up so badly that we need to be saved by the future generations. Imagine not learning that lesson and doing it again.
I always wonder how Gore might have acted in response to 9/11.
Probably a similar initial response, but no Iraq War two years later. Which would make a… massive (and positive, in case that wasn’t clear) change in the direction and concerns of American foreign policy.
He wouldn’t have suspended civil rights, permitted torture and made a mockery of the rule of law.
We think that yes. I’m a gore fan.
But remember there were 100s of people driving towards those topics. Career defense and security types making their damnedest case that they needed those tools to avoid 9/11 2.0.
I hope gore, and the staff he surrounded himself with would have had the vision to avoid all that, despite the pressure.
Based on after-the-fact reports, it may never have happened.
Maybe that’s just exposure to all the conspiracy theories, though, I dunno if he would have acted any differently than Bush did to the intelligence reports.
It’s questionable if it’d have even happened had gore been at the desk, y’know, because he’d have probably actually read the imminent attack report about the plot before it happened.
True dat. He wasn’t part of the cabal. That’s also why he wasn’t elected, in spite of winning. Just like Hillary.
Man, what I would do to have an unabashed giant nerd for president. I forget what people’s issue with Gore even was.
I, personally sat out that election because I didn’t like Al’s wife, Tipper Gore. She led the charge in a bunch of manufactured outrage about obscenity in music. I was also a jaded, cynical gen-xer who’d been hearing the importance of voting as long as I could remember, but every election was just choosing between a douchbag and a turd sandwich.
Looking back on everything that happened after that election, it’s insane to imagine how different things would be now if Gore had been in office instead of the criminal enterprise that we ended up with.
Gore was the watershed moment of the white left deciding no progress is allowed to happen unless it’s by their hands and they get all the credit.
Nader fired up his campaign in swing states as an act of retaliation against Gore posing himself as the climate candidate.
That’s it.
The Greens had a meltdown that the thing that usually happens to third parties in this country, that is having their platforms become the mainstream if they make enough noise, was happening to them, and they decided we’re not allowed to make any progress on climate unless we do it through them so fuck Gore and fuck anyone who’d dare support that disgusting “mOdErAtE!”
Al Gore won the popular vote, but there was some sketchiness down in Florida. During a recount, Roger Stone rallied the troops (Brooks Brothers riot) which caused the counting to be stopped, due to threats of violence. Setting up the supreme Court to decide Bush won Florida.
W was catastrophic. Honestly him and Reagan are the cause of most of our issues.
Nixon deserves a mention there too.
If you’re going to mention Nixon, then you have to include Andrew Johnson.
Nixon is inadvertently responsible for the creation of the right wing media circus which I would argue is fully responsible for W and trump.
He literally lost the popular vote, how does “vote more” mean anything
Protest voters who supported Stein alone would have flipped every single rust belt state had they decided on the country over feeling validated in wanting to vote “for” someone, and Zoomers and Millenials simply matching their share of the population in turnout could have propelled Bernie to the front of the primaries and over the finish line.
Nevermind how not voting let trump happen, not voting let clinton happen.
There are legitimate criticisms to be had of Biden, but in every case, Trump is unambiguously worse. If Trump were pro-Palestine, I could maybe understand single-issue voters preferring him to Biden…but he’s not.
To be honest, I have little hope for 2024. Genuine fake news is rampant, and in pretty much every case it hurts Biden (misinformation about the economy, etc.). I’ll be voting a straight Dem ticket in my very red state, and hoping against all hope that uninformed voters somehow do the right thing.
no one is saying they’re going to vote for trump. they’re saying they won’t vote for biden
Lmao, that’s the epitome of something that sounds smart but is incredibly stupid when you think about it. Especially in response to this meme.
In FPTP not voting for the chosen democratic representative means one vote less is required for the conservative. It doesn’t matter if that’s because you added a vote for Democrats, or didn’t vote at all. Same for voting 3rd party, it just ensures you get the candidate you want the least.
that the epitome of something that sounds smart but is incredibly stupid
I voted for Howie in 2020 and Biden won. you don’t seem to know how voting works.
You don’t seem to know what anecdotal evidence or statistical analysis works.
Biden barely won, and you didn’t get the candidate you wanted. In 2016, it’s people like you who gave trump the victory
people who voted for Trump gave him the victory. 50 years of people like Joe biden running the Democrat party gave Trump the victory. don’t blame me.
deleted by creator
This should be a lovely comment section… I’ll have to return with some nice warm dinner and a drink later.
I’d love to make a glib analogy like ‘my toast got burnt so I burned my house down and most of the neighbourhood’ but the literal fact that so many people are suffering makes that sort of thing rather tasteless.
I don’t think Biden is “Genocide Joe”. That’s ridiculous hyperbole which doesn’t help. We (the public) don’t know what kind of pressure is being levered in the background to end all the horrors of this situation.
People not voting Dem merely because of difficult historical relationships with Israel are dangerously deluded.
I will hold my nose and vote against a dictatorship but I do understand why people are so FUCKING ANGRY with the DNC for not even trying to find someone who is representative of the Democratic voters. They haven’t done so for the last decades and it is getting to point where something serious needs to be done about it. As in, make it clear to those ‘in power’ that we will make their lives a living hell if they continue to ignore the people.
It’s more than insulting. It’s disgusting behavior by people who know they can do whatever the fuck they want and no one can say or do anything about it because TRUUUMP!! It’s a fucking joke. It’s a disgrace to democracy and I will never again vote for Democrats.
This country is in fucking shambles.
Well, for me I actually quite like Biden. His Israel stance and protectionist economic policies are largely the only real policy positions he has that I disagree with him on, and he has done an exceptional job of accomplishing his stated policy goals within an extremely difficult and toxic political environment.
Here’s some food for thought: The last time the democrats had a solid hold on the federal govt with a filibuster proof majority in congress, we got the affordable care act. Ever since that term, the dems have been hamstrung by the GOP and rogue DINOs like Manchin and Sinema.
I don’t think there’s any “controlled opposition” conspiracy. If there’s a group to blame here the most, it’s the American media for pretending that the reason dems don’t get anything done is anything other than obstructionism and “both sides are bad hurr durr” rhetoric.
The last time the democrats had a solid hold on the federal govt with a filibuster proof majority in congress, we got the affordable care act.
A giveaway to corporate America and they arrogantly decided not to codify Roe v. Wade. And don’t forget, this was right after the financial crash and not one person from Wall Street went to jail over any of that shit.
It’s a hell of a lot more than anything the republicans have done for me in my lifetime. I certainly wouldn’t call it a giveaway to corporate america, they fought tooth and nail to try and keep anything even close to the ACA from passing. Is it an ideal system? No, but at least I can get a reasonable insurance package while un or self employed now, and that’s a huge deal for the economic mobility of the masses.
Diverting any of the efforts that went into passing the ACA to stuff like codifying roe v wade or staging a big crackdown on wallstreet most likely would have ended up with the ACA getting axed. That’s why we need to get the dems to have a secure position as the controlling party so they can focus on longer term goals and hammer the right wingers into irrelevancy. If we can get there, I’d hope to see the dems split into a liberal and leftist party so that way we can argue about which way we want to make progress happen instead of desperately trying to make any progress happen at all.
Buddy, I’m not content with “better than Republicans”. The Republicans are getting worse every year and Democrats are happy to follow closely behind.
Diverting any of the efforts that went into passing the ACA to stuff like codifying roe v wade or staging a big crackdown on wallstreet most likely would have ended up with the ACA getting axed.
You’re free to believe that. I believe they intentionally dragged it out specifically so they wouldn’t have to deliver anything else. Because most Democrat politicians are pro-corporate trash who are enabling the drift into fascism if not outright facilitating it.
You shouldn’t be content with just “better than Republicans” that’s how we get progress. That said, I still think you’re overstating how bad the democrats are. Yes, on some issues, they fold to corporate pressures and I’m not happy about that. In many other areas they are hamstrung by obstructionism and having to appeal to a big tent voter base; this is unavoidable until the republican party becomes irrelevant and the dems can split. There are plenty of areas however where they’re making incredible progress, here’s a list of stuff that the Biden admin has done just in 2023: https://www.reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/11lohnc/what_biden_has_done_year_three_year_one_two_are/
44 Democrat senators politicians and Joe Biden acted with lightning speed to block the rail strike. Meanwhile Biden has enlisted Yellen and Powell to go to war with American Workers. Fuck Joe Biden.
still think you’re overstating how bad the democrats are
Respectfully, go fuck yourself. If you genuinely don’t think this is bad then you and I are not on the same side. Good luck in 2024 Elect your procorporate trash candidate all on your own.
Either I’m an idiot or this doesn’t make any sense at all.
I can’t be certain of either, so…
The White Left thinks getting called out for their dumb privileged shit is “fighting the left harder than Republicans”
Tankies in tears over this, they can’t handle the fact that they have to vote for Biden lmao
All leftists are in tears, Biden is a center-right Capitalist. Leftists should vote for Biden, but they can understandably be upset that they have to vote for a Neoliberal just to prevent a fascist, while liberals and fascists get to gleefully trot to the ballot box and vote for someone that actually represents their views.
You want leftists to side with you happily? Maybe try appealing to leftists, instead of running on the basis of not being a fascist.
neoliberalism is fascism
That’s what exactly no theory does to someone.
Neoliberalism leads to and enables fascism down the road, but itself is not fascism. Neoliberalism is letting Capitalism loose, which will result in Capitalists gaining power and creating an absolute bourgeois state to oppress the Workers, typically by providing an “enemy” as a response to increasing disparity and a slipping of the grasp of Capital.
Fascism is a response to Neoliberalism, but is not the same, and in the US election the Neoliberal party and the fascist party vary significantly when it comes to social issues. Violence against minority populations is vastly increased under republican governance, and those I love are not privledged enough to not be in danger.
Neoliberalism leads to and enables fascism down the road, but itself is not fascism.
no, neoliberalism is fascism. liberal democracies are breeding grounds for fascism.
You contradicted yourself. Neoliberalism is not fascism, it provides the breeding grounds for fascism.
neoliberalism is fascism. I didn’t contradict myself.
Elaborate. You said it’s fascism, then said liberal democracy is a breeding ground for fascism. Which is it? Is all reactionary ideology fascism?
This is what I mean. You have precisely no grounding in theoretical knowledge, and cannot understand the differences between a fascist movement that results from Neoliberalism, to Neoliberalism itself. That’s like saying a tadpole is an adult frog. Same species, Capitalist, but completely different stages.
No one has to vote for Genocide Joe. Imagine calling people tankies while living in the most authoritarian country on earth.
Lmao you people are so fucking delusional it’s wild
Tankies don’t know their own history. Stalin helped to found Israel, expecting it to be socialist. USSR was the first to recognise it de jure and Czechoslovakia supplied it with weapons.
Later, when Israel sided with the west, USSR started a policy of anti-zionism, restricted rights of Jewish people and supplied weapons to Israel’s enemies.
Reading these comments, it feels people are having a giant trolley problem moment. Do I vote for Biden and throw the switch so fewer people die, or do I not do it and let more people die, but at least I’m not complicit then?
Do I vote for Biden and throw the switch so fewer people die
I can’t stand Trump but the past 4 years have not convinced me this is the case. Under Biden the US is actively bombing civilians, supporting apartheid, disrupting global trade, and still imprisoning human beings at the mexican border.
Trump was ineffectual and isolationist - he could be the actual harm reduction choice through sheer incompetence.
BRUH, Trump formally recgonized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and not Tel Aviv.
Thinking he’s gonna not give isreal anything they want. Evangelicals love to support israel because they think it’ll help lead to rapture/end of the world where they’ll be saved by god.
I don’t think you have as good of a grasp on the nuances of trumps supporter base as you think.
Don’t worry I won’t be voting for Trump. My take on trump supporter base is they’re typically older lazy boomers who want to yell at their TVs as trump “owns the libs.” Look at january 6th his base literally had to be invited inside to invade the capital and they just stood around gawking lol. Utterly inept.
Recognizing Jerusalem didn’t kill 25,000 Palestinians, but Biden has given unconditional support to civilian bombing in the middle east.
Neither candidate has done anything to convince me to vote for them. The sooner we all figure out voting isn’t going to fix things, the better.
Recognizing Jerusalem didn’t kill 25,000 Palestinians
Didn’t it? It seems very plausible that Israel’s most powerful ally taking this huge step that no previous president was willing to take could have easily galvanized Hamas’s resolve and fanned the flames leading up to the recent attacks and resulting Israeli siege.
This shit has been going on for decades. It’s foolish to treat the recent events as an isolated incident, or to compartmentalize the repercussions of US foreign policy to individual presidential administrations.
Recognizing Jerusalem didn’t kill 25,000 Palestinians
Didn’t it?
No, people firing rockets and bullets killed 25,000 people. This is the real world where real things impact real lives, and Biden shipping billions of dollars worth of weapons enables them to continue killing, not names or lines on a map.
This shit has been going on for decades. It’s foolish to treat the recent events as an isolated incident
Definitely agree with you there, I think it’s important for all of us to be educated about the history of American support for this cycle of abuse. I don’t plan to vote for any person who continues to support the killing of innocent people suffering under an apartheid regime.
Do you think people think about their culpability?
I mean, the argument “I don’t want to vote for Biden since he’s supporting a genocide, despite the fact my apathy may cause another person to get elected instead that supports more genocide” kinda sounds like that, yeah.
I am on the other side of the pond, so I have no vote there, but I don’t know what I’d be doing. I voted in elections where the best idea I had was a protest vote. I voted for joke parties as well. I never voted for someone who openly supported genocide though. Feels like a deal with the devil at least, like allying yourself with Stalin to fight Hitler.
American here. It sucks. We often have a lesser of evil vote. I don’t see an alternative. I’d vote for someone that ran on a platform of unfucking our elections / political parties. I have ill will toward both parties. It used to be very near equal, 15 or so years ago but through the tea party movement, into Trumpism, watching them ratfuck Obama out of 2 Supreme Court picks, then Jan6, smfh. I’ve lost all respect for Republicans. Dems have me in that respect because i have no other choice. That needs to change. That said…
I will go vote for Biden (and feel fine with it) because he’s trying. He’s pushing policy forward, even trying to reach across the aisle on important things. The other side of the aisle are clowns though and are doing some kind of performance art for their base rather than keeping the country running. Biden deserves my vote here. I don’t see evidence of anything other than him trying to unfuck the nation and return stability. More of that please.
Also, he’s not Trump. Fuck that traitor.
But choosing not to vote is also an action with consequences. It doesn’t absolve anyone.
I would assume that’s second option above and kind of the entire point of the trolley problem.
Good juxtaposition - in the US situation, the solution to two evils is not choosing neither, but choosing the lesser of the two. Only then can we make progress towards a world we all want
No.
Once we get ranked choice voting, sure. In the current landscape, the only viable option is the less bad of the two most popular. One choice only per vote, any ties in specific districts lead to a runoff until one choice wins. If we could push an actually good candidate into the top 2, then great! Otherwise, we’re kind of forced to either do damage control or risk splitting the vote. That’s the system right now.
Once we get ranked choice voting, sure.
Never going to happen and you know it.
With that attitude yup. The attitude of self-disenfranchisement against electoral participation is a close bedfellow with the attitude that self-disenfranchises against direct action and revolution.
Buddy we are disenfranchised. How the fuck do we ranked choice voting? The DNC and Boomers would fight against that the same way they’ve fought against everything else that would benefit any generations after the boomers.
Wake the fuck up. These rich fucks hate us and you’re here acting like they’re gonna give us what we need to start winning? What fucking planet are you on?
Buddy we are disenfranchised. How the fuck do we ranked choice voting?
By working on getting it passed at the state and even local level where we can. Some states already have it passed, such as Alaska of all places.
The rich fucks won’t give us what we need to start winning. We have to build that ourselves. That’s kind of the whole fucking point of getting people politically involved
By working on getting it passed at the state and even local level where we can.
Boomers won’t let it happen because they’re selfish pieces of shit.
You’re right but a bunch of people just don’t care anymore and I can’t totally blame them. I’ll be voting biden because I always vote, but this is on democrats 100% if they can’t motivate their base.
I think the issue is more rooted in people like you. Spewing voter suppression rhetoric from somewhere but it’s rooted in propaganda. Rather than rallying people to help and pointing out the good, which is what gets people motivated, you instead choose to blame the people trying not to turn America into a neo-nazi fascist theocracy. Which is the root at which the meme is getting at lol.
Unless it’s simple cat and dog pics (even then sometimes) people on the internet just love to pretend they’re above the people who watch reality TV, when it’s just a different flavor of the same thing.
If you’re interested in convincing people to vote for Biden (which I think is the best option we’ll have this election) then I would urge you to talk about the contributions he’s made, and to stop telling people who don’t want to vote for him that they’re the reason the fascists might win. Even if it were true, telling them that will not convince anyone to vote for Biden.
It’s also misguided to blame voters for not voting the way you want. If you want a vote, you have to convince the voter! Oh, is the voter too stupid or evil to understand that the candidate is the best? That’s a candidate problem. It’s literally how democracy works.
But if they don’t vote for him, fascists WILL win. This is not an opinion. It’s a hard truth. And that should be motivation enough for one to hold their nose and vote- THEN make the decision to pay attention more than once every four years.
If it’s not motivating people whose fault is that?
I voted for Biden before and I’ll do it again. I do think Trump is a threat to democracy. But if a restaurant goes out of business, is it reasonable or productive to say, “it’s the person who didn’t patronize our restaurant who did this”? “If it weren’t for the naysayers and people going to our competitors we would have stayed open!”
Maybe the restaurant should have changed the menu. Maybe it should have offered better prices. Maybe they should have made it more welcoming and marketed better.
For people who don’t want to eat shit, either don’t offer them shit, explain how it’s not shit, or make a pretty empathetic and convincing case why they’ve got to. My original point was that attempting to shame people and point the finger is not that winning case.
It’s entirely reasonable to blame review bombers for reducing business
It’s a convenient excuse to blame bad reviews for a restaurant closing. If the fundamentals of the business are good then bad reviews might hurt but aren’t a fatal blow. We can push any analogy until it breaks, but your example is a good case where blaming bad reviews is a convenient way for a restaurant owner to absolve themselves of responsibility or having to think introspectively about why they’re not doing well, similar to what Democratic leadership often does.
How about NO analogies.
Staying home instead of voting because one is too busy pouring over a single issue ideology easily the most of tent and foolish thing one can do. The majority of these kids suffering people do this, and/or stating that they themselves are doing this- maybe should place been paying attention the over the last 8-10 years and being active about making change instead of whining o line ever four years.
There. No analogies.
We’re past motivation. It’s fight for the existence of destruction of democracy. Vote now and worry about who’s to blame later.
If it’s as serious as you say, you might consider trying to sway people who don’t already agree with you instead of telling them they’re the reason the country is in trouble.
It’s amusing that you think I haven’t tried this already. I tried it in 2016 with the Bernie Bros, and again in 2020. This year, I say fuck them. I will be voting to save democracy, but I’m done trying to reason with unreasonable children and I’m not about to kiss their smug asses to get them to see part their own ignorance.
Except it isn’t a restaurant, it’s control of government, and a basic understanding of the rules of voting in the country shows that there are only two choices that have a reasonable chance of winning.
And? If you want people to vote for the candidate you support, you have to convince them to do it!
Yeah which takes ads, which require donations, and that is why politicians basically have to sell out in order to get votes.
EDIT: Everyone is right. The way the world works is that the Democratic candidate has to be a vaulted saint who single-handedly sheds decades old international alliances and ends all war and famine, is immune from money concerns, and disseminates his message via telepathy because traditional donations are beneath a being of his type…and he must be able to fully defeat a Republican demagogue who takes money from anyone, has the full support of Russia, and whose every utterance is covered in the press in addition to being a de-facto cult leader with a warchest of millions or even billions of dollars to be able to do traditional ad buys as well.
Completely reasonable 🙄
That same line gets thrown at leftists every election despite no concessions from liberals. Leftists are absolutely trying to make grassroots movement, but overcoming the liberal status quo and making positive change is tremendously difficult. Yes, leftists should vote for Biden, but the DNC should not be surprised that Leftists get desperate and can vote third party if the DNC continues to be a center-right Neoliberal mess.
I just can’t wait for those of us in the queer community to either be thrown in camps or flee the company, all so that the people who didn’t vote can tell me it’s actually because of Biden.
As a trans person, it’s been so upsetting how quickly the people who claim to support you just ignore the looming danger. They don’t want to vote for Biden because he supports a genocide while ignoring the genocide that’s about to happen in our own country.
What’s really terrifying, is that history repeats itself. The Weimar Republic of the 1920’s was supportive of trans Rights as well, like America currently, it had the first trans health center, including the first governmental support for trans people Transvestitenschein
Then someone who had a huge gang of violent thugs took over power and all his enemies ended up dead or locked up.
You know those, “if you could go back and shoot Hitler before he came to power” thought experiments? But I would never condone violence…
I would. I have thought about doing it myself so many times. The logistics of it though, I can’t. I’m not the Jackal.
How is a trans person in America more important than a Palestinian?
I’d be willing to bet that not too long ago, you couldn’t point to Palestine on a map, could you? I’ll bet you had NO IDEA there was even a conflict brewing there.
And dollars to donuts- you had to have the entire thing explained to you several times before you chose your side.
This comment smells like projection
EXACTLY.
Yes, I get it, things are shit. Innocent people and children are dying. You can and should be upset about that. But we don’t have the luxury of taking our ball and going home. Even more people are going to get hurt if Biden doesn’t win.
It’s a myth that there isn’t anything to vote for, only against. We have LGBT rights to vote for. Minority rights. Protecting vulnerable Americans. Stopping fascism.
Let my future kids and their kids call me a genocide supporters for voting for Biden. As long as they can identify as who they want and love who they want without any persecution, I’ll accept the condemnation.
Genocide is okay as long as it happens somewhere else. AmIRite?
Not in the slightest. But allowing more genocides to grow and occur throughout the world because you’re angry about one genocide in particular is absurd.
We can’t save everyone, and we have to accept that. That doesn’t mean we can’t try to save as many people as possible, however.
I never get tired of these kinds of low effort posts.
Trump isn’t even pro palestinian and if he’s not clarifying this, goes to show.
“Sure, I made the ongoing genocide worse, but at least I didn’t vote for GENOCIDE JOE” - Useful idiots for the Israeli far-right
Is PugJesus hired by the DNC? David Brock’s Correct The Record part deux?
A critical refinement of this point: By all means, please do vote for whichever actual progressive candidate you favor in your state’s Democratic primary. This is not sarcasm; do it. But when the general election comes around Biden is inevitably the candidate anyway, do whatever it takes to keep Trump out of office.
And why shouldn’t Biden do whatever it takes to stop Trump? If supporting a genocide loses votes, there’s an easy way to win those votes back.
Woah woah woah, you mean actually try to win votes through rational and humane policy and not merely the fact that he’s running against a human piece of shit and is technically better? You mean that we should have someone with actual principles on the democratic ticket instead of someone nodding along and sending weapons to a genocidal government? Outrageous wow why do you love Trump so much
You can tell they’re white because they phrased this like they’re lecturing the party’s manager at DNC Walmart
How do we know supporting Israel isn’t getting him more votes then not supporting Israel?
It’s not that simple. Changing positions will probably polarize people to vote against him as much as it will win over votes to him.
Especially because those who are likely to withhold votes over this will probably demand the most drastic of actions before Biden passes their purity test.
Geopolitically it’s a bad move on top of that as it ends the relationship with practicallythe only middle Eastern power we have as an ally.
The reproductions of that alone is certain to energize opposition to Biden in the far right.
While he may lose voters over his current inaction, taking action could easily lead to a net loss on election day.
Unfortunately what is best for a country geopolitically and what is morally right often don’t agree with each other.
Even from a moral choice Biden is the better option. You get someone pressuring for a Two-state solution keep aid flowing to Palestinians as well as to support in helping Ukraine who are being genocided by their definitions. While also supporting international efforts to re-open one of the busiest shipping channels so places like Africa & others experiencing hardships that will have trouble maintaining safety & stability if prices of common goods increases.
See Bernie 2016. Won the DNC, but got snake in the grass Hillary instead, which led to understandable mass apathy amongst the Democratic voters. I’m still pissed! Kinda like what reportedly happened with McGovern '72
